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NoSlayer's picture
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Speed Tournaments

How can a tournament with speed involved consistently be denied every month? If people claim that "Speed is luck" they are clearly the sender of an ignorant statement. I acknowledge the fact that there needs to be thin tournaments, thin is a lot about camping skills and a lot about being creative and being well aware of the camp/attack risk etc. But speed on the other hand (if we talk ffa) is a lot about positioning, knowing when to attack in speed and when not to, knowing exactly when to take the speeds (as opposed to thin where there is no point in saving a thin and where taking a thin "too early" wont have consequences as it will have in a speed game. I dont think it should be a question of either speed or either thin, i think both should be implemented from time to time, and i think its sad to see speed being looked over as an option every time. Not gonna turn this into a discussion about thin vs speed, just think that the time has come to stop ignoring speeds from the tournament blackboard, as thin is one type of game and speed is another type of game, there should be room for everyone here and not just the thin players as i see it.

 

Regards,

 

NoSlayer

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Yeah a speedtourney should be nice!

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Speed tournament would be cool, yes,  unless they make 4v4 which is unplayable

 

 

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Nah, I disagree.  I like how you tried to make speed sound very skillfull, but really all the skills you mentioned for speed games are definately needed in an ordinary ffa game and then some...

Speed games are a large proportion of luck. I am not ignorant, infact I used to prefer speed games more than other games myself and used to play speed mostly; I even got 2230 ffa off it a few months ago, but I have now learned from playing ordinary ffa games over the last few months that really it's not that skillfull in comparison to normal ffa games.

Truth is there is only a small ammount of skills you need to learn to be able to get a high rank in speed or be considered 'good enough to have a chance of winning' because really the rest is down to complete luck.

You mention how getting a thin too early or too late would make no consequence in a Thin FFA 8 game but in my opinion that is the way it should be? Thin is just a benefit which you can use to your advantage to enhance your gameplay, it makes it a bit easier or allows you to take a better path. It may increase your chances of winning that round a bit more but it will not make such a significant difference that it decides the winner of that round for you. However in a speed game when you don't get a speed powerup, if you are unlucky and got no powerups the entire game, odds are you are not going to win and probably gunna finish in the bottom 4, however in a normal ffa game you can still win without getting the powerups. The chances of you winning shouldn't be dependant on powerup spawns, and that is where I think the real skill comes in.

I am against a speed tournament, as it is just too big a proportion of luck and doesn't really portray much skill in comparison to a normal ffa tournament. 

 

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I totally agree with declanr

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DeclanR wrote:

Nah, I disagree.  I like how you tried to make speed sound very skillfull, but really all the skills you mentioned for speed games are definately needed in an ordinary ffa game and then some...

Speed games are a large proportion of luck. I am not ignorant, infact I used to prefer speed games more than other games myself and used to play speed mostly; I even got 2230 ffa off it a few months ago, but I have now learned from playing ordinary ffa games over the last few months that really it's not that skillfull in comparison to normal ffa games.

Truth is there is only a small ammount of skills you need to learn to be able to get a high rank in speed or be considered 'good enough to have a chance of winning' because really the rest is down to complete luck.

You mention how getting a thin too early or too late would make no consequence in a Thin FFA 8 game but in my opinion that is the way it should be? Thin is just a benefit which you can use to your advantage to enhance your gameplay, it makes it a bit easier or allows you to take a better path. It may increase your chances of winning that round a bit more but it will not make such a significant difference that it decides the winner of that round for you. However in a speed game when you don't get a speed powerup, if you are unlucky and got no powerups the entire game, odds are you are not going to win and probably gunna finish in the bottom 4, however in a normal ffa game you can still win without getting the powerups. The chances of you winning shouldn't be dependant on powerup spawns, and that is where I think the real skill comes in.

I am against a speed tournament, as it is just too big a proportion of luck and doesn't really portray much skill in comparison to a normal ffa tournament. 

 

 

Being able to handle speed is a "skill", many people even fail to control 2 speeds, everyone can control 2 thins, so yeah, you are clearly ignorant if you believe that speed is about luck more than anything else. Going through holes with speed takes skill too and it is VERY important that you can manage to do this if you want to do speed games as it opens up a whole lot of opportunities in the game. Because, if you are capable of entering a hole with a speed it will mean you can enter "free" camps because so many have died off 2 speeds so it leaves a lot of space open for you to take + it enables you to attack other players out of position if you can go through the holes. If speed was "luck" then random people would win speed games, its usually just the higher ranked players that tend to win in speed games; exactly how it should be. For instance, i have played with realmadrid in maybe what, 15 red ffa speed games, not once have i managed to finish ahead of him, not even in games where my luck have been out of proportion where 3 red speeds have spawned right infront of me; he has still managed to come out on top as the winner of the game every single time. Same with oldghz, same with scism, they always win in a blowout even if its 1800+. In thin games, its usually much closer and i tend to see 1800 players beat 2100 players more often than what i happen to see in speed games. My intentions were not to turn this into a thin vs speed battle, but its just to show you how your argument is invalid and it shows why you are ignorant. Same is the case for me if i play with people ranked under -1500, then i may finish #1 in 10 out of 10 games and even with a 25 deficit lead down to number 2, dont tell me that that would be possible to happen if it was purely based on luck, then the variance would even out on the long run, wouldnt it? You sir, are ignorant for stating speed is luck. If you dont want games to be dependant on "luck" (which speed isnt) then i think we should just go ahead and remove all powerups from all tournaments, shouldnt we. 

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8 speed ffa yes;) red 85%

Red Speed Pro

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If the skill level is significant as you are saying with realmadrid playing with players like you, or you playing with 1500s then ofcourse you are more likely to win...

 

I never said speed takes NO skill, just ALOT less than normal ffa games, infact your reply showed me that YOU are the ignorant one. You are hellbent on trying to convince people that speed takes a great deal of skill but infact, it does not. As I said there is only SO MUCH you can learn to be considered good enough to have a chance of winning a game, and dont tell me that more lower ranked players win normal ffa games than speed games, this is a false fact that you are making up to support your point.

Please read what I said, because you have twisted what I have said a bit to try and make me look ignorant or a fool, however you have ignored some vital points I mentioned which would make you look nothing more than a desperate hypocrit trying to make a ludacris point.

 

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DeclanR wrote:

If the skill level is significant as you are saying with realmadrid playing with players like you, or you playing with 1500s then ofcourse you are more likely to win...

 

I never said speed takes NO skill, just ALOT less than normal ffa games, infact your reply showed me that YOU are the ignorant one. You are hellbent on trying to convince people that speed takes a great deal of skill but infact, it does not. As I said there is only SO MUCH you can learn to be considered good enough to have a chance of winning a game, and dont tell me that more lower ranked players win normal ffa games than speed games, this is a false fact that you are making up to support your point.

Please read what I said, because you have twisted what I have said a bit to try and make me look ignorant or a fool, however you have ignored some vital points I mentioned which would make you look nothing more than a desperate hypocrit trying to make a ludacris point.

 

 

"If the skill level is significant as you are saying with realmadrid playing with players like you, or you playing with 1500s then ofcourse you are more likely to win..." False. Not if its based on luck, if it was based on luck as you claim it to be, then everyone should have the same chances of winning the game making it as likely for the rank 1900 to win as for RealMadridCf to win. So you are now either admitting that you are ignorant and/or your argument and statement is invalid.  You are still ignoring what i say, how can u deny the fact that it takes skill to pass holes with speed as opposed to passing holes with thin? I already read what you said and what you said was so stupid i felt dumber after i had read it. 

Now youre also accusing me of being a hypocrite, you care to explain what excactly makes me a hypocrite? Stop posting absolute nonsens in a failed attempt to bash me. 

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For the first time i agree with declanr -.- :)

Official speed tournaments : NO

Unofficial speed tournaments : YES

BANANORPION - HALF-BANANA HALF-SCORPION †'s picture
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Always debating on whether ffa speed is based on luck or not.. Truth is every type of game is based on luck, even no-item. There's luck as long as all players don't start on the same spot at the beginning of the round. If you start alone in a corner while 6 or 7 opponents spawn in the same half of the map, you're lucky. Luckier anyway than whoever gets multiple items in a red speed game.

Getting items in a red speed game is not even as lethal as it sounds, since yeah, it happens that you only get 1 or 2 items in a whole game, and it sounds unfair. But the ones getting items are not always the same either. So, getting no items at all, with a high rate, means you probably won't get any 7-point round during the whole game, but if you're more skilled than others, you still can score 6-point rounds, which is clearly enough to pretend to victory.

With a fairly low rate (between 80 and 85%), speed tournaments would be as fair as other tourneys, so I'm clearly in favour of them.

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Btw, why are you all talking about RED speeds and FFA?

 

 

BANANORPION - HALF-BANANA HALF-SCORPION †'s picture
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I don't know, I talked about what I was interested in. I don't like speed teams, not because of "luck", just because I don't have "usual" teammates. I don't have anything against green speeds, though I prefer red only.

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if you want to play speed you should clear describe which type of speed:

3 circle,rubber, green speed

green speed

red speed

3 circle, rubber, both speed

 

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TODDEMFCB wrote:

if you want to play speed you should clear describe which type of speed:

3 circle,rubber, green speed

green speed

red speed

3 circle, rubber, both speed

 

 

All kinds.

Team: Green speed - Red Speed - Circles - Eraser and/or Green Speed - Circles - Eraser

Both are cool. 

FFA: Red speed only.

 

The Team speed powerups would work in FFA too, but too chaotic and not very tournament like, its more of a public game than a tournament suited setup. 

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I've no intentions on bashing you. You are being ignorant because you are not reading every detail of what I say and are only quoting certain points of my post.

I never said a speed game is COMPLETE luck, NEVER I said there is only a small ammount of skill you need to learn and then the REST is down to complete luck. My point is it is too high a majority of luck for me to believe it should be considered for a tournament...

I said you are a hypocrit as you are accusing me of being ignorant when you are the only one being ignorant.

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And also I am not denying the fact passing a hole takes a bit of skill but lol, really? Should this be the deciding factor of whether you deserve to win a game or not? What a load of complete nonsense man.

Passing a hole with speed is what I consider to be one of not many skills you need to learn to be considered good enough to win a game...

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BANANORPION - HALF-BANANA HALF-SCORPION wrote:

Always debating on whether ffa speed is based on luck or not.. Truth is every type of game is based on luck, even no-item. There's luck as long as all players don't start on the same spot at the beginning of the round. If you start alone in a corner while 6 or 7 opponents spawn in the same half of the map, you're lucky. Luckier anyway than whoever gets multiple items in a red speed game.

Getting items in a red speed game is not even as lethal as it sounds, since yeah, it happens that you only get 1 or 2 items in a whole game, and it sounds unfair. But the ones getting items are not always the same either. So, getting no items at all, with a high rate, means you probably won't get any 7-point round during the whole game, but if you're more skilled than others, you still can score 6-point rounds, which is clearly enough to pretend to victory.

With a fairly low rate (between 80 and 85%), speed tournaments would be as fair as other tourneys, so I'm clearly in favour of them.

 

*Shakes hand*

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DeclanR wrote:

And also I am not denying the fact passing a hole takes a bit of skill but lol, really? Should this be the deciding factor of whether you deserve to win a game or not? What a load of complete nonsense man.

Passing a hole with speed is what I consider to be one of not many skills you need to learn to be considered good enough to win a game...

Its not the deciding factors, it is ONE of the factors. "Bad" players that fail to hit a hole with speed, will in most cases avoid attempting to hit and aim for the hole, which means their chances of winning the round are much lower than someone whom is capable of hitting the hole. This is like thin players that fail to do halfcamps (because they are scared of failing it - like i am :P) this means their chances are lower than people that actually know how to make the half camp. Therefore i believe there should be room for both powerup setups in the tournaments. Its just 2 different kind of games. 

We have now played many tournaments with "special" powerups, which is the most random powerup setting you can find. 

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+1 i wanna speed

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+1, Speed is some luck, yeah, but all game types are. Its a reason the best speed players on this game usually win or place top 3 in every speed game. 

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FFA red speed is pure luck so no ty

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FFA 8 Red speed helps noobs to get high FFA rank. Btw:

Depp wrote:

yes, scaled

Sorry, no offcial speed tournaments :(

UŽ LIETUVĄ, VYRAI !!!

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ok

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Im in , red speed tournament : NICE !! :)

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Yeah. But been half a year and still only seeing the old boring thin/specials tournament powerup settings... 

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Slayer, next month is Speed.

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Depp wrote:

Slayer, next month is Speed.

 

Really? 8 Man ffa speed or what? 

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If you're gonna organise a speed tournament, consider making a big turn tournament as well *-*

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It will be Team Speed, users can vote between 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 smiley

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Depp wrote:

It will be Team Speed, users can vote between 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 smiley

 

Could you also make green speed ffa8 tourn once ? :)

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celineam wrote:

Depp wrote:

It will be Team Speed, users can vote between 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 smiley

 

Could you also make green speed ffa8 tourn once ? :)

 

and red speed 8 man :)

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Depp wrote:

It will be Team Speed, users can vote between 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 smiley

 

Sounds great. Its a step in the right direction at least :) 

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I'm so happy they finally hear someone that like speed games. God job to make this thread Slayee and seems they have heard you. I can't wait to see this tournament.

I think for those that dislike speed games and when I say "those" I mean the champions or those players that are 2000 in rank thanks to their skills in thin or any different kind of type of games, is time to take a sit (if you don't want to play) and watch a tournament with speed items. You all don't have to play every tournament and be in the final, don't be so selfish. But if you think it is about luck and less skill than other item see this tournament like a crazy random tournament and have fun playing it. ALL the different type of games have a porcentage of luck, basically because the game randomly drop an item in any part of the field, no matter if it is thin or speed if you are nearby you are lucky if you are not well you are unlucky. Even without items exist other kind of luck... what if your stronger opponent lose connection a couple of rounds? or those players that like to troll and are on your opponent the whole game? of course bad luck for your opponent and good luck for you, but clearly you won't see that was luck but deffinitely skills.

Remember this is just a game. Win or lose, don't need to be your goal just enjoy it and have fun and of course do your best to be the champion but don't make the title or your high rank become a reason to think your words and thoughts are more importants than the rest of players ideas.

Edited by: 
Laura19 on 28 September, 2014 - 15:14
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Depp wrote:

It will be Team Speed, users can vote between 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 smiley

Uh, 4v4 Team Speed is never a good idea. Too much chaos...

Edited by: 
Curvirine on 28 September, 2014 - 18:10

 

 

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Laura19 wrote:

I'm so happy they finally hear someone that like speed games. God job to make this thread Slayee and seems they have heard you. I can't wait to see this tournament.

I think for those that dislike speed games and when I say "those" I mean the champions or those players that are 2000 in rank thanks to their skills in thin or any different kind of type of games, is time to take a sit (if you don't want to play) and watch a tournament with speed items. You all don't have to play every tournament and be in the final, don't be so selfish. But if you think it is about luck and less skill than other item see this tournament like a crazy random tournament and have fun playing it. ALL the different type of games have a porcentage of luck, basically because the game randomly drop an item in any part of the field, no matter if it is thin or speed if you are nearby you are lucky if you are not well you are unlucky. Even without items exist other kind of luck... what if your stronger opponent lose connection a couple of rounds? or those players that like to troll and are on your opponent the whole game? of course bad luck for your opponent and good luck for you, but clearly you won't see that was luck but deffinitely skills.

Remember this is just a game. Win or lose, don't need to be your goal just enjoy it and have fun and of course do your best to be the champion but don't make the title or your high rank become a reason to think your words and thoughts are more importants than the rest of players ideas.

 

Youre absolutely spot on here Laura.