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Better rankings in Curve Fever 3

We want people to enjoy Curve Fever 3 on two major aspects. Competitive play and social interactions. To achieve more competitive play, there are different ways of doing this, but one of the things we want to improve, is a better ranking system.

My personal competitive experience

When I was 19 years old, the game of “Battle for Middle Earth” came out. I got addicted to the game, made endless excel sheets and put many hours into the game. After a lot of work, I finally found a strategy that fitted well with me, and it propelled me to nr. 36 of the world. Every match was a hearth thumping experience. Concentration, knowledge and physical condition were key. Each victory was nice, but every loss was devastating. After a match, I was usually sweating like hell. No deodorant could save me.

I couldn’t hold up the commitment to the game, and didn’t want to lose day after day to finally get on a more relaxed level. So I made a new account (called IAmVeryGood) and toyed with some noobs. This was very enjoyable, but after a while also became a bit boring, and finally I quit the game altogether.

So in the years I was gaming competitively, I could really feel what makes me want to continue (looking up the ladder) and what made me to get out at some point (ladder anxiety). With these points in mind we want to re-implement the new ladder system.

Competition in Curve Fever

Now lets have a look at Curve Fever. The competitive play in Curve Fever consists of 3 important parts:

  1. The rank point system were you get points for each match you win or lose
  2. The way you initiate the games, primarily by Custom Play.
  3. The leaderboard/rank you have that shows your skills

Rank points

I believe that the rank point system in Curve Fever 2 works very well for FFA. For teams it doesn’t work so great yet, but we have an improvement ready to make this one also work great. The conditions when the rankings work well are:

  1. You can’t choose your opponents
  2. Everyone plays a lot
  3. People don’t drop out / rage quit
  4. People don’t make new accounts

Let’s go through this list:

You can’t choose your opponents This means that you can’t boost or be boosted, and that you play against random people equally. You can’t make this happen in custom play of course. But you can do this in Quick Play quite easily. If you are strict in the definition, than this would rule out Custom Play from having a ranking system, and thus Custom Play would become less interesting to play. This is the path almost all games go, but it might not be the path Curve Fever wants to take. I believe Custom Play has more gameplay depth and replayability value than Quick Play. We are currently exploring how we can still give rank points in Custom Play, although a little less than in Quick Play.

In FFA, boosting can be prevented by counting how often you have played against a certain opponent. If it is more than X times per Y weeks, and you play again with this player, you shouldn’t gain or loose rank points anymore.

In Team games we see a big advantage for the team that hosts the game. They can select with whom they want to play, and tend to select the stronger players. In team games we want to build a ‘random’ option, where the game puts players in the teams based on their skills, to make even teams. Only clan battles and parties would allow people to pick their team members, and match them up against other clans and parties.

Everyone plays a lot Unfortunately, we can’t force people to play Curve Fever. But if a player likes Curve Fever, he will play it a lot, unless he gets ladder anxiety. Ladder anxiety is when you got to a really good position on the ladder and have done so by a very big effort. At this point you might become afraid to lose your rank points when you keep on playing. Stopping playing, to save your rank, is then a valid option.

We have two ideas to solve this. Firstly, we want to split the rank into your visible rank, and a (hidden) bonus pool. The visible rank and bonus together form your true strength, but only the rank is shown. The bonus pool works as a multiplier: If you win, you get extra points from the bonus pool (+10 rank points + 10 bonus pool points). If you lose, you don’t get any minus rank points, as the points are deduced from your bonus pool. Every day, we will put some points from your rank to your bonus pool. Thus if you don’t play every day, you will automatically lose positions on the ladder.

Secondly we want people to give the option to ‘reset’ their rank. A large amount of their rank will be transferred into their bonus pool, giving them the opportunity to start playing on a more relaxed level, without feeling like they are wasting a lot of time.

People don’t drop out / rage quit This problem is very apparent when playing with new players, and when playing in team games. In the ‘wood’ league, we want the games to last pretty short, so most newbies don’t want to leave anyway (say max 5 minutes). In team games this stays a problem, but with random teams everyone should have this problem equally often.

People don’t make new accounts In a free game we can’t force people to stop making new accounts. Moreover, it is a lot of fun to create a ‘secret’ alias to play with. We can reduce the need to let people create new accounts by making it possible to reset your account and username

In our next blogs I will talk more about Leaderboards and how we feel about Quick Play and Custom Play. So lets hop on to the next blog post about Curve Fever 3:

Incred's picture
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Very nice. Maybe the wood league for teams would just go to 3 points instead of 10? That'd be approximately 5 minutes and would give new players a quicker grasp on the ranking system. In the next league it can go to 5 points, then 7 points, and ultimately 10 points when you get into the more serious leagues. As for free for all just like in team, there's still the problem of being able to pick the people you play with. If you have friends in the game you have an advantage. Therefore maybe the wood league for free for all can be to 20 points, then it can gradually increase to 70 points as the leagues become more competitive. Im assuming this league idea would be running solely through  the quick play system. 

As for custom play to still keep it a preferred option for those that like it, you can gain perks through it like titles and other aesthetic items, but nothing that will give you an edge on the ladder. Since in custom play there's so many item sets I am still interested in how these item sets will be carried over into quick play. One suggestion I thought of earlier was making temporary monthly ladders using a popular  custom set voted on by the community.  Another suggestion I just thought of is that for each league you can vote for your personal item set [out of 3 random options presented to you before each game out of a pool of 10-20]] and the one voted on the most would be played. This would mean that the #1 spot on the ranking board would be the true best...being able to gain the most rank playing through up to 20 total powerup sets. 

 

 

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Hey Incred, I think we are on one line about the smaller games for new people to the game. Picking friends is a drawback, but we can minimize the effect by the anto boosting mechanic as described in the blog.

About custom play: GREAT IDEA! I really like it to give custom play perks to people who play it a lot. It is also a clear message, for some things you need custom play and for others it is quick play.

About the diversity in Quick Play, I will tell in an upcoming blog post how we want to tackle that.


 

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Hey Geert, my idea for "People don’t drop out / rage quit" Biggrin

--> On user card is "Reliability" so all players can see it before the game starts. so for example is the player leaves a team game her reliaiblity go down. 95% is good, 45% is bad.

Sorry for my bad English. Biggrin

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Hi Martini, Your English is not bad at all :D . I think that a karma rating would be a good idea. You could upvote or downvote a person after the end of a game. This could then also work for bad behavior


 

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How do you want to prevent that some pessimistic player vote bad for all player, no matter if they behave good or bad?

I think it is an good idea to make an automatic rating about leaving but i think it is difficult to judge if someone behaves good or bad. You can also see this in the curve fever tribunal cases. There are some reports for nothing.

So the rate about the behavior would depend on subjective attitudes.

I hope you got what i mean :) 

 

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Geert's picture
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It might happen that trolls vote negative on everyone one. But why would they in the first place? A negative karma is only a problem if many people vote negative about you. And then, you might have done someting really wrong. Also, a troll is likely to have a negative karma, and we could diminish the effect of a negative vote casted by a negatvie karma person, like:

Karma points given / (N amount of negative karma points / n amount of plays in last month)

Then Karma itself is not going to be used as a reason to ban people. It is especially usefull to make people who do good, stand out. A good example would be:

The mods. There are some people who don't like the mods, as they tend to make the best for most of the people, they sometimes make tough decissions. And if you make tough decissions, you will get a big response. But it doesn't mean that people don't like this mod. They could get more gratitude if they see that actually most people really appreciate what they do, by giving them karma points.


 

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Ahhhh oke,

Karma Points = N amount of negative karma points / N amount of plays in last month

That´s good Smile

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To prevent people from boosting their karma or lowering someone else karma you can use the same system as coins. So that you can give -5 to somebody if you played 5 games with him or something like this. So that a hater won't be able to spoil karma to a big amount of players unless he played with them long enough.

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OMG GEERT HELL TO THE YES!!!! I AM CRAZY ABOUT KARMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

o3o.......karma rotates around my playstyle :D

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Bfme what serie? I mean bfme, bfme2, rotwk, and wich patch?? I'm still playing rotwk u202v.5.01

Geert's picture
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Only bfme 1. Does it still exists? Is it fun? Is Gandalf still an overpowered one man army?


 

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Hehe yep. But with soke patches they fixed it. Anyway i'm on bfme 2 - rise of the witch king. You can build on all maps as age of empires. Btw i'n off topic Smile

When will you realase curvefever 3?

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Curve Fever 3 release is unkown, but we want to do public betat testing on the end of march http://curvefever.com/content/our-plans-curve-fever-3


 

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This is kind of off topic but i lag sometimes in European servers because i'm American. But, I do not enjoy the choice of gameplay i have on the American servers (barely any rooms and none of my friends). I was just wondering if the servers will change because almost everything happens in the European servers (tournaments, high-ranking rooms, etc.) and i do not enjoy it when people constantly say "refresh please" and "you are so laggy man". Hope you have a good day, i was just curious. Smile

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I totally understand you. We also see it in comments of American players: "The game looks really fun, and is well polished, but it misses something" Well, I can tell you waht it misses: Players! 

Curve Fever 3 should go and conquer the hearts of Americans. That is our goal. So we will do everything to get a lot of Americans to play Curve Fever 3. And this starts with doing crazy PR!


 

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Get Lirik to play the game, he has been looking into it for a while (nightstreaming with Shorty and Waffle) so if you guys contact him I'm sure he might consider it. Especially since lots of viewers have been telling him to play. The problem then was that he didn't want to make an account and the play as guest button wasn't obvious enough for him I guess.

Also changing usernames is a great idea, I'll be changing my name for sure xD

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@ThePvPCreator

That is a good idea. I should contact him to ask him if he is interested in a streaming it indeed!


 

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Just a small advice for Curve fever 3: Be able to mute spectators.

It is good to be able to mute playing players in game, but why are you not able to mute spectators in game?

Your neighbour

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The host should be able to kick spectators as well during the game. 

zeroZshadow's picture
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You are already able to mute spectators using "/mute name" in curve fever 2 though?

The names are tab-complete, so /name zero(tab) would auto-complete my whole name if i was in your room

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Hi Geert,

I think all changes suggested are very good for the game. However I think you must not fail to take the following matter seriously;

People don’t drop out / rage quit This problem is very apparent when playing with new players, and when playing in team games. In the ‘wood’ league, we want the games to last pretty short, so most newbies don’t want to leave anyway (say max 5 minutes). In team games this stays a problem, but with random teams everyone should have this problem equally often.

Why would this stay a problem? I think there are loads of solutions to people leaving, people leaving(+ latency issues) is one of the biggest reasons for me to stop playing the game as frequent as I did. One solution I would like to suggest is to prevent one player of the other team (team still playing with 4) to be able to play. Following by another player of the same team the next round. Another option is to change the ranking of the game where one leaves; altering the amount of ranking changes in a game where someone leaves. Another option is to pause the game to give a player waiting to join a game the chance to fill in the empty spot.

I agree with you saying that in random teams everyone has this problem equally often, yet I dont think thats a valid argument for not changing anything to the problem stated above.

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@klepkanon,

I agree that more can be done to prevent this. I also really like your suggestions, I will give them serious thoughts and discuss them in the group.


 

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I'm really looking forward to CF3 after reading this blog post! The bonus pool idea is ingenious. 

Just making sure, for "quick play" in teams you will not be able to play with your friends in the same team in ranked games at all? Everything will be anonymous until the game starts and then you get to see who you play with and when the game ends you will be mixed with another team in a new game? I like how it makes the rank clean. A minor suggestion is to add an option for rematch because it can be a real gg. So at the end of the game you can have 3 options - new room, rematch, return to lobby. If everyone selects rematch within like 5 seconds it can happen maybe.

"About the diversity in Quick Play, I will tell in an upcoming blog post how we want to tackle that." - when will this blog come? Because I was thinking about each player getting an extended profile, so he/she has different ranks for each different item setup provided in quick play (and a overall rank in the main leadership board could be the average of them and sub-leadership boards for different items perhaps.) But it depends what you guys have planned with the format of the game (items? line characters?).

Geert's picture
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@miaonaise In Quick Play you can join the team quick play alone, but also with a party (for example with your clan). But you won't be able to select your opponents

Diversity in quickplay we want to do it soon. There are so many things to write about: Leaderboards, Monetization, Quick Play diversity, Classes, Customization, Clans, Social features and much more. I hope to bring you a blog each week :)


 

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The problem that I have with the current ranking system is that it's totally instable and inexpressive. The top rankings illustrate that perfectly. One day someone is 2300, the next day 2100 and after that 1900. This is going on every day - again and again. At some certain point you will lose interest in the whole "hunting for numbers"-game and the competitive part will die soon after that. You will feel like it's more like a random number and the names in the top rankings change so often that you won't even take a look at the leaderboard anymore. That's one reason why only tournaments are competitive at the moment: ranking is just too irrelevant because you don't get rewarded for trying to achieve a high rank and can't compare yourself to others, since the system is not significant enough to compare strength by ranking points. With the new decreasing system (rank decrease for top 50 every week) the last motivation for hunting rank, breaking records, died. I think you should try to find a solution to make the game competitive again and not only at one night per month (tournament night) but continuously.

Geert's picture
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Hey Genius,

Good points. We clearly have a deadlock here. The problem with the rankings was that one person (One) could hold the top position for months. Therefor we introduced the system that mixes up the top rankings.

What we want to achieve, is that everyone keeps on playing as much as possible, and not that the top spots are constantly taken by the same persons. The new system will be a bit better then the old one, in this regard:

Yes, there will be a daily/weekly rank decay, but the rank is not lost, it is transferred into your personal bonus pool. This way your total strength does not change. Internally we calculate with the sum of your rank and your bonus pool. Therefor, it should be very easy to get your high super score back. We also want to put a max on your bonus pool (say 500 points) sos that you will always have a minimum rank

(If you were 2300 and stopped playing, you would be left at 1800 with 500 bonus points. If you play a match, you will be valued as a 2300)

Let's see how it is, and when it doesn't work, we will look how we can change it.


 

onCocaine's picture
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Secondly we want people to give the option to ‘reset’ their rank. A large amount of their rank will be transferred into their bonus pool, giving them the opportunity to start playing on a more relaxed level, without feeling like they are wasting a lot of time.

If I understood well, you want to give "Reset rank" button back into the game making it possible for people to reset their ranks from, let's say, 1800 to 700? Like it was before? If so, then there is something I dont understand. Why giving it back for the players if it was already removed in the first place due to a lot of negative comments and feedback about it? In my scenario it will just create CF world with players resetting their ranks 10 times per day, decreasing their ranks on purpose and keeping lower ranks intentionally because it's more "relaxing" and "comfortable". What's the point in that? Actually I see no problem with the current system where people make new accounts (second accounts) - with that they want to gain higher rank possible as soon as possible and what stops them from making million second accounts is that they have to gain coins, colours and all that stuff again. Yes, second accounters ARE a problem but in my opinion that is still a lot less problem than it would be with "Reset" button. Besides, if you want to play on a "relaxed" level you can always play an unranked game - this is what it was created for, wasn't it?

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hi I just want to say I love You Irena ! <3

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