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G_master's picture
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About ranking system

Hello,

I have kind of complain over ranking system - in last few days I am observing that new accounts (usually old players, but they had created new account) shows up from nowhere and they overtake 1st place like over night with only 10,15 or even less games played. I have opinion that rewards for being new are too high when they hit 1500/1600 rank - you need to sweat a little bit to reach 1st place xD

The best thing to do would be to decrease/increase new player bonus depending on your rank - let say at 700 you would get 100 bonus and at 1600 you would get 10 or so (numbers are for illustrative purposes only - don't know exacly how bonus is calculated). Or you are getting bonus of 100 till rank 1400, and han it starts slowly decreasing.

I hope you find this comment appropriate.

G_master

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Interesting. I wasn't aware that this was going on.
The ranking system is already based on the player with whom you are playing. It is very unlikely you get +100 if you are ranked 1600, as there are littler rank 1600 players to play with.
However, the fact that due to this, old players create new accounts to get high in the ranking fast is worth discussing for us

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Geert's picture
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I was already thinking howto solve this problem. In general, new players get so many points, to get them in the right ball park quite fast. It is more fun for everyone to play against equally strong people off course. However, maybe we can limit the maximum they get, depending on the maximum points the leader of the pack has...


 

Skwara's picture
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1. Check IP's for multiaccount.

2. I don't like the "new player gets more points" idea after all. I have never seen it anywhere where those type of rankings are implemented. If somebody is good and just registered, they should go play with good players and they'll get many points without bonuses.

G_master's picture
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Skwara I think this new player bonus is good thing, because there are many good players who played atk 1 and they will discover atk 2, and they can come fast to the rank they deserve. And because high level players just don't want to play with low level ones, they just cannot get up fast without the bonus.

For the calculations - now it is like that:
- Old player gets "points depending on other's rank (and on his rank of course)"
- New players gets "points depending on other's rank" + "new player bonus" (don't know real calculation, so just for simplification)

Geert, your proposal was to limit the SUM of "points depending on other rank" + "new player bonus" -> I would just limit the "new player bonus", depending on the rank the new player is having - higher the rank meaning lower the "new player bonus" he can get in the game.

Still, I really don't care if someone have multiple accounts, all I care that the rank you have is earned xD

Geert's picture
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Hey G Master, Your last post exactly says what I thought. When players get into the same ball park as the top of the chart, they should get less bonus points (or none). We will look into this :)

I also don't really know how multipla accounts can harm. What if 2 brothers want to play the game from the same pc? In worst case people will have a pro account and a fun account...


 

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I agree with G_Master. That's a good idea but formula for how many bonus points a player gets should involve top players ranks because we don't now how the board will develop. I remember times when top player had less that 1600. And it's growing, so maybe a year from now top would be around 2000 or more. I don't know.

G_master's picture
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BUMP - just to remind you of this proposal :D

Why reminder?

 - please compare this 2 games:
   * http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/achtung/match/260370
   * http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/achtung/match/260390

To sum up - in one game, a new guys get +73 at rank little below 1900, and next game, playing with same opponents, he gets only +2 - all non-premium rooms

I don't remember going up for more than 40 even when I fell to 1800 some time ago, but here he got +72 with rank more than 300 higher than average of opponents average, and at 1900 rank!

 

Now funny part - few games later, to hide his "not so fair" games from last 10 games, he was playing but he lost in this game:

http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/achtung/match/261681

And I thought iPlayRock is overranked xD

Geert's picture
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Hey G_master,

looks like this guy is VERY good. I mean, defeating players ranked 1600 and 1500, without losing a round... Seems pretty good to me.

He also didn't loose 1 round in those game, for 5 games in a row

On second thought, it looks like he is a cheater...


 

G_master's picture
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He's good for probably rank from 1650-1750 or even 1800, I played him. But still, you just can not win 50:27 unless all those accounts are yours and only one snake you control is new one (even the names - Okapi, Okapi Kaas - similarity maybe? xD hard to belive 2 so same account are played by 2 different players)

Still i don't want to ban him or anything, he's a good players (still with bad habit :P), just make rankings not so awarding for new guys after 1600 or 1700 :)

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Haha, I said he cheated, and he didn't complain about it :) He is THC Willem . I just defeated him in a match, defenitely not 1900 rank =)


 

G_master's picture
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look in 6 hours..

Geert's picture
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Hey,

I will lower his rank too.

Also, it is not possible anymore. When you have more then 1200 points, your bonus multiplier is lowered, and becomes 0 when you have the same rank a the number 1.


 

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I lowered http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/users/you-arent-sexy-and-i-know-it-0 to 1200 points, as well as mrs quiggles http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/users/mrsquiggles . I promise that these practices are not possible anymore


 

Geert's picture
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So the deal is now, you get extra bonus points as a new player, except when you get above 1200 points. Then  your extra bonus points are lowered, untill you are halfway between 1200 and the number 1. If you are more then halfway, you will gain the same amount of points as the other players in your team.

Off course there is always a basic increase in the points for new players.


 

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geert, my rank dropped without losing any points. is it only me?

 thanks

Hi from Croatia Smile

xXS4MSUNGXx's picture
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LoL I had a sec acc and I got from 1600 to 1700 with it on one game! That was quit fun. And the players I beat in that game where having a rank of, lets say 1300-1550? 

The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million man is statistics - Josef Stalin

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something messed up. i won 9 points in a game and dropped like 80 points on the ranking list.

Hi from Croatia Smile

Geert's picture
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Hey S4mSUNG,

Could you tell me your second account, so I can see if it is correct. Was the account still new?


 

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Hey, It is not you. I have given you 100 points to make up, as that is what you lost... No idea yet, how or why...


 

Skwara's picture
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I think the new players bonus is not a good idea, because it creates new points and that creates points inflation. A year from now propably there will be players having 4000 points and it will increase to infinity.

Geert's picture
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Bonus points are no real bonus points. They are removed from your current rank, and after 10 games, you will have received all of your removed rank points. With calculation of the rank, the bonus points you have left are added to the current rank, to get your real rank strength.

Also, the first 10 games, you get a bigger effect on defeating or winning from a certain player. This way, the new player will get faster to its true rank. But to stop feeding, if your rank comes close to the top ranks, it won't give you this extra effect, so then it is like playing normal games.

Also I will (on short notice) make a weekly adjustment to the ranking system, where there is rank decay, and an auto anti inflation system, that puts the average of the total ranks on 1200 points.

It won't go to infinity. It should follow a normal distribution. The top rank is based on the total amount of players. If the total amount of players increases, the top rank will increase. If the total amount of players shrinks, the top rank will shrink.

Skwara, how does the game perform for you now? I did some improvements, but hope it is good :)


 

Skwara's picture
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Nice post, but tell me when exacly these bonus points are removed from my rank.

And I stopped playing when the key delay occured. I have to come back to the game.

Geert's picture
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when you create an account, the rank points are removed from your true rank


 

Skwara's picture
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So when I create an account i have 700 points, but my true rank is higher? I'm sorry but i still don't see it.

Geert's picture
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Yep, so you create an account and it will receive rank 700, but also a number of bonus points. Those bonus points + your rank are your true rank, that is used for calculations. Every game you play as a new player, you will get some of your bonus points, untill your bonus points are 0, and you are not a newbie anymore. To make sure newbies end up at a rank they should be on, they also get a larger factor of lost and win points. But this factor is reduced when you reach the top ranks, to prevent feeding.


 

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Hey,

It looks like it works. This user tested it for me, he is probably the same person as the previous feeders, and tried to feed a new account. He got to a true rank of 1600 points, but there it had no effect anymore: http://achtungdiekurve.net/users/prudence

 

Match History
Time Game Result Rank Points
Today Hangover 3/6 (new) 1589 +4
Today Hangover 2/6 (new) 1585 +30
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1555 +54
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1501 +68
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1433 +85
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1347 +106
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1241 +133
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1108 +173
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 935 +236

 

Another cheater http://achtungdiekurve.net/users/adsl Who cheated all 10 games in the new rank system:

 

 

Match History
Time Game Result Rank Points
Today Gamename 5/6 1562 -6
Today Gamename 4/6 1567 -3
Today Invalid Gamename 6/6 1570 -10
Today Invalid Gamename 4/6 1579 -3
Today Invalid Gamename 5/6 1582 -7
Today Invalid Gamename 4/6 1589 -4
Today Invalid Gamename 4/6 1593 -6
Today 1500 plus rank 6/6 1599 -32
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1631 +19
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1612 +29
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1583 +42
Today Gamename 1/6 (new) 1541 +56
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1485 +69
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1416 +85
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1330 +105
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1225 +131
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 1094 +168
Today Invalid Gamename 1/6 (new) 927 +227

Or another cheater: http://achtungdiekurve.net/users/fuckup who actually cheated the full first 10 games of the new fase.

TodayGamename1/6(new) 1621+14
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1607+30
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1576+44
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1532+59
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1473+70
TodayGamename2/6(new) 1403+65
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1339+101
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1238+125
TodayGamename1/6(new) 1113+163
TodayGamename1/6(new) 950+250 

 

This compared as it used to be:

YesterdayGamename1/6(new) 2049+81
YesterdayGamename1/6(new) 1968+86
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1882+92
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1791+100
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1691+111
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1580+125
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1455+144
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1311+169
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 1142+203
YesterdaySexy1/6(new) 939+240 

 


 

Geert's picture
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The following cheaters got decreased in Rank:

 

Mr.Squiggles
Mt.McKidney
FuckUp
ADSL

 

CommanderCore (not verified)

And whats up with Phycone for example?

http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/users/phycone

 

Look at the last 6 matches with the INSPECTOR. I can't believe the INSPECTOR is such a big noob losing all games with 0 points. Thats maybe a problem with multi accs, that its possible to sign in with both accs in the same time and let them play against.

I've got also a double account, but haven't done things like that.

 

Greets CC

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yes you are right. inspector and phycone are the same person. 

another cheater is cimedodo: http://achtungdiekurve.net/users/cimedodo . i watched him.. . his "opponent" C R O  A T I A actually never played and left instantly.  in earlier games he tried to look it more legit and gave croatia  some more points

the abuse is too high, so geert please fix this ( and punish the cheaters)

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Yes Beffl this is true.

This is some kind of cheating that should be forbidden. but i got no information that this is not allowed so a punishment  is to hard. i wont do this anymore and will play with both my accounts as normal as always from now on!

Sorry to everyone who is annoyed by that

SHOW ME YOUR GENITALS----GENITALIAAA!!

Skwara's picture
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You have to be really stupid to not realize that this kind of "tactic" is not fair.

Geert's picture
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I will take action to everyone who does unfair tactics. So be warned! I will give a mild change in points for INSPECTOR and Phycone, and also do the same with cimedodo and croatia.

Another point:

This week I will introduce rank decay. The lost point will be distributed among the active people. Also, to stop inflation/deflation of points, the average number of points is averaged...

Right now the average amount of points is 60 points to low. So if I was you guys, I would at least play 1 match this week, to get a 100 point bonus in ranks at the end of this week ;) .


 

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today i lost 50 points cuz of server lag i guess that is punishment enough man

SHOW ME YOUR GENITALS----GENITALIAAA!!

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IF YOU PUNISH ME THAN ITS FAIR TO PUNISH EVERYONE WHO IS DOING THIS OR WAS DOING THIS!

From whom I have learned this tactic???

Check G_master's room (abouth month ago) No Entry and see with who he was playing in that 2 player room. :D

Sorry G! ;)

JUSTICE TO EVERY PLAYER!!!

Greetings from warm and nice C R O A T I A :D

 

p.s. It would not be fair to punish me and NOT OTHERS.

thank you Geert for this nice web ;) 

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Yea that's kind of true - but all i done wan chnnel some of points from better account to worst - why? so I can play with lower ranked account which is premium xD

Before the games there was:

G_master                           2085
I'm sexy and I know it       2035

After those 2 games:

G_master                           2041
I'm sexy and I know it       2078

At the end 1st account actually had lower rank than before games. You can check this here:

http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/achtung/match/230875
http://www.achtungdiekurve.net/achtung/match/230865

I think that there is difference between this, or making your rank higher than the rank at which your current skill is :) Geert here are the facts - now decide on your own :)

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I have been 3rd before, Geert can check, it i had 1979... it was my highest rank and you cannot say that i dont have skill for the 3rd place, and because of lagging i went down!

The difference is that sexy gain 43 points in two games, its a lot G!!!

I promise I WONT PLAY LIKE THAT ANYMORE, IF I BREAK THIS YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!

I hope you will consider this! :)

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So the ranking system was made to show CURRENT skill level, not the best you had in all-time - i agree that there should be in the rankings one category which shows highest rank all-time, but this is another topic.

So to explain you once more, Sexy gained 43 -> but also G lost 43 when he was my BETTER account - at the end I had still 2 accounts with simmilar rankings than before, all I done was a change which account has around 2080 and which has around 2040.

Moreover, with sexy i improved my rankins for 40 and G_master's for 40, and I am defending those in highest rooms possible.

Still at the end, Geert have last words, so I'm out :D

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Hey,

I need to put up some rules fast. Anyway, cheating is not allowed, as well as feeding or stacking or anything to influence the rank system. Therefore I have done the following:

Croatia, Phycone, Inspector, cimedodo have -100 points, as they put a big effort in changing the ranks.

G_master, I'm sexy and I know it have -50 points, as they did play on with the new rank, but i consider it stacking the points onto a safe account.

Best regards,

Geert


 

Geert's picture
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New part in the ranking system. From now on cheaters can get a dramatic consequences for cheating (as the previous actions where quite mild, I think :))

Cheating

Cheating is off course not allowed. Cheating is considered every action, that is not playing in a normal and fair way, to influence your ranking in a positive way. If ranking cheaters are found, we will investigate the matter, and take actions accordingly. As from now on (March 2012) the consequences will be quite dramatic, with several hundreds of points loss.


 

Geert's picture
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rank decay starts this sunday morning at  4:00. Be sure you played last week :). We want to clean up the rankings list, and it means that we will give a massive -10% rank points if you are inactive last week. From then on it should be -1%.


 

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CImedodo is angry as Croatia :D

-100 :O 

FASCINATING!!!

Geert's picture
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Yes, it is mild, but next time I am no mild anymore :)


 

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The users Lazio, AS Roma, G-Spot and IRA have been decreased in rank to 1200 because of cheating.